Hi guys. I've been doing my training, took the written yesterday and
have my checkride in 2 weeks.

Couple of questions.

1) The tolerance for MDAs on the test is +100/-0. The natural response
to this is of course to target the altitude MDA+50ft, giving 50ft
buffer in either direction.

My question is this: how do you manage this on the checkride? If the
real MDA is 460, so your MDA+50 is 510, do you say "1000 for 460...900
for 460...800 for 460" etc? You can't really say 510 can you, as the D/
E might think you have the wrong MDA. But if I say 460 I tend to go
down to 460 - and then it's all too easy to accidentally go down to
459 and that's a bust.

Thoughts on how to manage this? For real life it's easy - just raise
the MDA 50ft and know you have a 50ft buffer but no more. But for the
checkride?

2) Any other checkride gotchas or tips people have for me would be
super-useful.

By the way I'm talking about a real checkride, not a simulated one.

Thanks
Tom

Drop down to the 460 and come up 20.

--

Scott

"while there are Muslims who are moderate, there is no moderate Islam"
http://www.jihadwatch.org
"Tom" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys. I've been doing my training, took the written yesterday and
> have my checkride in 2 weeks.
>
> Couple of questions.
>
> 1) The tolerance for MDAs on the test is +100/-0. The natural response
> to this is of course to target the altitude MDA+50ft, giving 50ft
> buffer in either direction.
>
> My question is this: how do you manage this on the checkride? If the
> real MDA is 460, so your MDA+50 is 510, do you say "1000 for 460...900
> for 460...800 for 460" etc? You can't really say 510 can you, as the D/
> E might think you have the wrong MDA. But if I say 460 I tend to go
> down to 460 - and then it's all too easy to accidentally go down to
> 459 and that's a bust.
>
> Thoughts on how to manage this? For real life it's easy - just raise
> the MDA 50ft and know you have a 50ft buffer but no more. But for the
> checkride?
>
> 2) Any other checkride gotchas or tips people have for me would be
> super-useful.
>
> By the way I'm talking about a real checkride, not a simulated one.
>
> Thanks
> Tom

On 06/27/08 11:47, Tom wrote:
> Hi guys. I've been doing my training, took the written yesterday and
> have my checkride in 2 weeks.
>
> Couple of questions.
>
> 1) The tolerance for MDAs on the test is +100/-0. The natural response
> to this is of course to target the altitude MDA+50ft, giving 50ft
> buffer in either direction.
>
> My question is this: how do you manage this on the checkride? If the
> real MDA is 460, so your MDA+50 is 510, do you say "1000 for 460...900
> for 460...800 for 460" etc? You can't really say 510 can you, as the D/
> E might think you have the wrong MDA. But if I say 460 I tend to go
> down to 460 - and then it's all too easy to accidentally go down to
> 459 and that's a bust.
>
> Thoughts on how to manage this? For real life it's easy - just raise
> the MDA 50ft and know you have a 50ft buffer but no more. But for the
> checkride?

For the check ride? Do exactly the same thing. I told the examiner
that although the MDA/DA is XXX, I'm going to descend to XXX +50
for a buffer, and that if the conditions warranted it, I would
creep down closer to XXX (although if I remember correctly, I used
20, not 50).


>
> 2) Any other checkride gotchas or tips people have for me would be
> super-useful.
>
> By the way I'm talking about a real checkride, not a simulated one.
>
> Thanks
> Tom

Best of luck on the check ride. I hope you post how it goes for
you.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Tom" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys. I've been doing my training, took the written yesterday and
> have my checkride in 2 weeks.
>
> Couple of questions.
>
> 1) The tolerance for MDAs on the test is +100/-0. The natural response
> to this is of course to target the altitude MDA+50ft, giving 50ft
> buffer in either direction.
>
> My question is this: how do you manage this on the checkride? If the
> real MDA is 460, so your MDA+50 is 510, do you say "1000 for 460...900
> for 460...800 for 460" etc? You can't really say 510 can you, as the D/
> E might think you have the wrong MDA. But if I say 460 I tend to go
> down to 460 - and then it's all too easy to accidentally go down to
> 459 and that's a bust.
>
> Thoughts on how to manage this? For real life it's easy - just raise
> the MDA 50ft and know you have a 50ft buffer but no more. But for the
> checkride?
>
> 2) Any other checkride gotchas or tips people have for me would be
> super-useful.
>
> By the way I'm talking about a real checkride, not a simulated one.

I suggest you train and are able to consistently meet ATP standards which
are +50/-0. That way on your checkride you will have the confidence to sail
through the checkride, not just pass with minimum standards.

I'm not a big gadget guy, but sporty's sells various reminder bugs that
affix to the altimeter. The suction cup ones are cheap, but I've had them
fall off during flight and roll back under the seat. Another cheap method
is just to go to an office supply and get a pack of stick on signature
pointers which work great. You can easily take them off and reapply as
needed and they work equally when targetting an assigned altitude, which is
the most frequent deviation when flying IFR after your checkride.

On Jun 27, 11:47*am, Tom > wrote:
> Hi guys. I've been doing my training, took the written yesterday and
> have my checkride in 2 weeks.
>
> Couple of questions.
>
> 1) The tolerance for MDAs on the test is +100/-0. The natural response
> to this is of course to target the altitude MDA+50ft, giving 50ft
> buffer in either direction.
>
> My question is this: how do you manage this on the checkride? If the
> real MDA is 460, so your MDA+50 is 510, do you say "1000 for 460...900
> for 460...800 for 460" etc? You can't really say 510 can you, as the D/
> E might think you have the wrong MDA. But if I say 460 I tend to go
> down to 460 - and then it's all too easy to accidentally go down to
> 459 and that's a bust.

Yea, don't get too close to the MDA. Just tell the examiner you're
flying it a bit higher (within the standards). In real IMC you may
choose to fly it 200 feet high if you are ultra sharp on your skills.

-robert

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
> On Jun 27, 11:47 am, Tom > wrote:
> > Hi guys. I've been doing my training, took the written yesterday and
> > have my checkride in 2 weeks.
> >
> > Couple of questions.
> >
> > 1) The tolerance for MDAs on the test is +100/-0. The natural response
> > to this is of course to target the altitude MDA+50ft, giving 50ft
> > buffer in either direction.
> >
> > My question is this: how do you manage this on the checkride? If the
> > real MDA is 460, so your MDA+50 is 510, do you say "1000 for 460...900
> > for 460...800 for 460" etc? You can't really say 510 can you, as the D/
> > E might think you have the wrong MDA. But if I say 460 I tend to go
> > down to 460 - and then it's all too easy to accidentally go down to
> > 459 and that's a bust.
>
> Yea, don't get too close to the MDA. Just tell the examiner you're
> flying it a bit higher (within the standards). In real IMC you may
> choose to fly it 200 feet high if you are ultra sharp on your skills.

I've always thought adding any sort of buffer to the MDA is a bad idea for
novice instrument pilots. Never continue an IFR approach past the MDA, but
always be prepared to go to the MDA.

Here's why. The typical scenario is a novice instrument pilot adds a buffer
to the MDA, say 200' like you said. Then he flies to his imaginary MDA and
doesn't break through. So he may try it again, only lower (almost always a
bad idea), or he may go to his alternate only to find it worse and then try
to go back. All are recipes for disaster.

Approaches are designed to be flown to the MDA which provides a reasonable
safety margin already. If you don't have the skills to fly to the MDA, pick
an easier approach in which you can or don't fly IFR.

Mike wrote:
>
> Approaches are designed to be flown to the MDA which provides a
> reasonable safety margin already. If you don't have the skills to fly
> to the MDA, pick an easier approach in which you can or don't fly IFR.

When I did my checkride, I was taught the same.

You can descend saying "1900 for 460..." and maybe get to 480 or 490 by
the MDA, but DON'T BUST IT! Arriving at the MDA at 660 would raise
issues with the examiner, as you're not demonstrating complete control
of the airplane.

Remember, you're also expected to be centered on lateral guidance, so
you should be fine @ MDA. Haven't set the altimeter correctly? You'll
still fail! <G>

I don't agree with the "cushion" on a checkride.

On Jul 20, 3:17*pm, B A R R Y > wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
> > Approaches are designed to be flown to the MDA which provides a
> > reasonable safety margin already. *If you don't have the skills to fly
> > to the MDA, pick an easier approach in which you can or don't fly IFR.
>
> When I did my checkride, I was taught the same.
>
> You can descend saying "1900 for 460..." and maybe get to 480 or 490 by
> the MDA, but DON'T BUST IT! *Arriving at the MDA at 660 would raise
> issues with the examiner, as you're not demonstrating complete control
> of the airplane.
>
> Remember, you're also expected to be centered on lateral guidance, so
> you should be fine @ MDA. *Haven't set the altimeter correctly? *You'll
> still fail! *<G>
>
> I don't agree with the "cushion" on a checkride.

All it takes is a little turb that causes you to lose a couple of feet
and you've busted the checkride.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
> All it takes is a little turb that causes you to lose a couple of feet
> and you've busted the checkride.

Agreed.

But there's "a little turb" and there's hundreds of feet of cushion
above the MDA.

It's a matter of degree and circumstance.

Adding some turbulence protection on a gusty day would be prudent, as
would a mention of you doing so on purpose.

If you were 200 or more feet high on a decent day, the DE's I know would
probably compare it to your other approaches, and possibly let you
take another shot at one high approach. Most of them will allow a redo
on a mistake, if the mistake is to the safe side. Do it on all of them,
and you'll fail.

Remember the PTS has standards:

Non-precision = +100/-0 @ MDA
Precision = 3/4 scale deflection of either needle @ MDA

The airlines usually round a non-precision (OZ, TWA, AA, SA, and
Republic) approach up to the nearest higher 100 feet. This usually
results in a sufficient pad in case you overshoot. Probably not a bad
technique.


--
joeyb
Message Origin: TRAVEL.com